A TALE OF TWO CITIES — Maak Haus Mag

Self Portrait © Bobby Grossman

A hundred years into this pandemic and we can barely remember what made New York, New York. All we can do is wait for a vaccine and imagine the moment when things get back to normal. When we can respond to hackneyed things like, “We’re New York Tough,” with a quick, “Go Fuck Yourself.” Until then, we like to think about that one mythical time in New York, which has shaped so much of so many people’s personalities and art since. The New York of the ’70s and ’80s. The Andy Warhol, Glenn O’Brien, Jean-Michel Basquiat, David Johansen and the New York Dolls, Lou Reed and the Velvet Underground, Fab Five Freddy, Debbie Harry, and Bobby Grossman's New York. Bobby Grossman, camera in hand, documented a time in New York, which will never be seen again, and with a little help from him, will never be forgotten.

Maak Haus Mag is thrilled to talk to the legend himself.

Bobby Grossman (L) and John Waters (R) © Bobby Grossman

Timothy R. White: Who or what subject are you working on now?

Bobby Grossman: During my years in Florida, I exhibited solo shows in Sarasota, Delray Beach, and Boca Raton and I participated in Art Basel. I brought the show up to Providence and New York City. And once life picks up again another show downtown would be nice. Last year Debbie [Harry] published her memoirs, “Face It,” and she included a dozen of my photos -- a very sweet and kind gesture recognizing our 40 plus years of friendship. In May 2010, Shepard Fairey had a solo retrospective at Deitch Projects. I collaborated with Shepard on a large portrait of Debbie. I introduced Shepard to Chris and Debbie and they are very good friends, working together on many projects. I have continued to work with Shepard and Debbie over the years with t-shirts and silkscreen portraits that appropriate my photo images.

Three years ago, in conjunction with the non-profit organization LISA Project NYC, Shepard painted a Debbie Blondie mural (using my famous Debbie image) beside the restaurant Saxon and Parole on Bleecker and Bowery across from John Varvatos, where CBGB once was.

It has become a major downtown tourist attraction for selfies and Blondie fans worldwide to visit. A few months back the art was tagged and badly vandalized. Then a week ago Shepard and the LISA Project restored the wall, a Christmas miracle. And currently, Shepard will be helping me with Debbie graphics for my LOW FIDELITY book too.

In 2003 I bought a Maltese dog and named her Baby. She had pigtails with fancy bows and wore bangs. She was a gift in my life and possibly the best highlight of my 66 years. She hated the camera but was always up to it for fun to pose for selfies.

Other than that, while I was living in Florida and taking care of my Mom, I began putting together a book of my photographs. It started off as a photo book and then the captions turned into little essays. I began to ask friends to contribute writing so it’s now more than a photo monograph but not quite a memoir.

Now I am hoping to finish the book early next year. Hopefully, it might be published by end of 2021. Dagon James (under his imprint The Waverly Press) has picked up where Richard Boch left off as editor of Low Fidelity. Dagon will design the book with me assisting and Richard helping out. The Kickstarter project and Publisher are on hold since Covid interrupted the process.

Glenn O’Brien © Bobby Grossman

TRW: What was day-to-day life like at The Factory and what was your first impression of Andy Warhol?

BG: I was still attending the Rhode Island School of Design, in Providence, when I first met Andy and everyone at The Factory. My friend Andre Leon Talley had recently been hired by Andy and he invited me down. Andy looked over my art and his advice was to work big. He seemed to like my art and wanted others to see it too.
He phoned Lou Reed who was in between apartments and was living around the corner at The Gramercy Park Hotel. I taxied over to Lou and we spent a few hours together. Lou was finishing up final mixes of his Coney Island Baby album and played the premixed cassette for me on his black boom box. I’d say that was an auspicious first day for a college kid networking, making connections.

Andy Warhol © Bobby Grossman

Later on, once I was already living in the city, my lease ended at The Chelsea Hotel and I moved to University Place and 13th Street across from Bowlmor [Lanes] and Stromboli [Pizza] — just a few blocks from Andy. I knew almost everyone at The Factory, but my involvement with Andy and The Factory was marginal. Early on, when I assisted Richard [Bernstein] I’d drop off the INTERVIEW cover art. And later on, I had a few photos published in Glenn O’Brien’s Beat column. Otherwise, my relationship at The Factory was just friendly and social. I’d occasionally stop by after breakfast at Jason’s Coffee Shoppe luncheonette across the street. I might be on my way to Chemical Bank on 17th and Park, or Duggal Photo Lab off Fifth Avenue. Sometimes I would stop by with Glenn.

Lou Reed © Bobby Grossman

Occasionally I would bring McDonald's and show everyone my contact sheets from the day before. Everyone there was always busy doing something, but they had time to break up the day, so I seemed to be welcome. I tried to keep my visits brief because mostly I showed up announced. Formal visits were arranged when I worked with Victor Bockris.

Andy met with William Burroughs a few times and I was hired to document the visits. Bianca Jagger was there with her daughter Jade; and they were part of the interview and photo session during one of Bill’s visits. Jerry Hall was there for lunch once, only I didn’t bring my camera. Truman Capote stopped by when I was hanging out and that was fun. And another time Farrah [Fawcett] and Tatum [O’Neal] arrived together. They were shopping and I was excited to be introduced to them. Farrah was gorgeous and had the prettiest smile, and Tatum was quite cute and still pretty young. We said our hellos, but I was so shy I had to look away.

Andy was always friendly to me. He was curious about what was going on. Ronnie Cutrone and Walter Steding worked for Andy so I’m sure he had a good idea of what we were up to when he wasn’t part of it, but he enjoyed asking me anyway. Andy would sometimes ask me about my Dad since he knew my Dad worked in the city.

Andy Warhol © Bobby Grossman

TRW: What is your process like for taking a picture? Do you consider light and shadows or do you only focus on the subject and worry about the rest, later?

BG: When I gradually abandoned and eventually dropped my illustration career, I owned a few Polaroids and a point and shoot camera. Some of my best photos were taken with my basic point and shoot Konica with a pop-up flash. After a year I realized I really needed a single-lens reflex camera — and I owned a few. Maybe I felt to be taken more seriously I needed a professional camera — I owned a Nikkormat and a few Nikons. I mostly used a flash attachment. But sometimes I was lucky to fall into a situation at a studio where strobe lighting was available. Sometimes I set up formal shoots; other times I was up against the wall point and shoot — whatever may be, would be.

Richard Bernstein (L) and Andy Warhold (R) © Bobby Grossman

TRW: How did your life change once you became the man behind the camera? Did you need to hide or remove yourself from what was happening around you in order to capture what you captured in your photos? Is there anything you missed out on in order to capture such an iconic time in New York? Are there things you’re glad you missed because of it?

BG: Once I picked up the camera I didn’t want to miss anything — and keep in mind, there was a lot going on. I might start my evening at One Fifth Avenue and then club hop for music and maybe art events and openings and end up at The Nursery for an after-hours haunt a few blocks from my apartment at 4 AM.

I was so immersed with my downtown friends and the scene I sometimes regret falling out of touch with other friends. I also regret missing out on mainstream events. I’m sorry I didn’t follow Dylan’s live shows. And it’s a shame I would ignore shows at the Lone Star Cafe. The club was half a block from my apartment and sometimes I would peek into the window or occasionally stop off for an afternoon beer, but I didn’t take advantage of the convenience of the club and the stellar shows they had nightly.

TRW: Was there anything you learned starting out as an assistant for Richard Bernstein, that has stuck with you through your career?

BG: When I first met Richard Bernstein, I was a senior at RISD. Andre Talley was our mutual friend, and Andre introduced me to Andy, too. Richard connected me with a few editors and art directors he was friendly with; Ruth Ansel, Bea Feitler, and the editors Steve Lawrence and Miguel Sanchez from The Picture Newspaper, a new happening large-format tabloid. I think Steve was the art director for the New York Times Magazine as well. Richard was under the gun at times meeting deadlines. He would meet his Interview deadlines at the last possible minute. Late in the day on a Friday afternoon, I would drop off the cover art, and it would be too late for the editor Robert Hayes or art director Marc Balet to make any adjustments or advise corrections before going to the printer. That was Richard standing his ground, having the final word.

Richard’s studio was off the lobby at the Chelsea — sometimes I would visit him. I’d bump into him, and we would briefly give one another updates on our current projects. The last time I saw Richard was at a rooftop memorial for Fred Hughes in July 2001. Many of Richard's friends were there. To name a few — David Croland, Chris Murray, Christopher Makos, Brigid Berlin, Vincent and Shelly Fremont, Sylvia Miles, Victor Bockris, Marissa Berenson and her sister Berry (a close friend of Richard’s who died 2 months later on the Boston plane that hit the World Trade Center - 9/11.)

I hadn’t seen Richard in many years, so it was nice spending time reflecting and catching up. Richard admitted at times he was probably very difficult to work with, which made me feel better about ending our work relationship.

TRW: Is there a moment from your life that plays on repeat in your mind?

BG: In 1978 Glenn O’Brien began a 4+ year run of his public access cable TV show. David Letterman called it — “The greatest TV show ever!” I was the ‘unofficial’ official TV Party photographer. Every week we would meet at the 23rd Street Blarney Stone across the street from the School of Visual Arts. We’d tip back a few beers then head upstairs to ETC Studios for an hour-long show. Either a theme show was planned with guests depending upon what was going on topically in the news or a seasonal Halloween show or something like that would be planned.

We had a few location shows at Hurrah and The Mudd Club. We had a Western Cowboy Show, a few heavy metal shows, a Primitive show, and more. Loosely based off of Hugh Hefner’s Playboy After Dark and Johnny Carson’s The Tonight Show, Glenn served as host. Chris Stein was co-host and Walter “Doc” Steding led the house band, Amos Poe directed with Edo, Fab 5 Freddy, Richard Sohl, and others on camera. We took phone calls, we had a crazy fun time and we smoked a lot of weed.

TV Party was “The TV show that’s a cocktail party but which could be a political party.” I miss Glenn. He taught me a lot and am grateful to have had his friendship. It seems since Glenn was a workaholic, he’s still referring me to photo assignments from “The Never-after.” One night we were up at Hurrah on 66th and Broadway. I think Walter was playing with his Dragon People. Club promoter Jim Fouratt had phoned me to let me know David Bowie would be there.

Later that evening all my friends collected around David socializing, talking with David, and having fun. Andy was there too. But I shyly remained in the shadows supporting a column, by myself - deciding whether to join my friends. Before I could decide whether to make my move I looked up and David approached me with a friendly smile. In a playful manner, he shoved me remarking, “You’re a snob.” David Bowie called ME a snob. How cool is that?

FOLLOW BOBBY ON INSTAGRAM @BOBBY_GROSSMAN

Text and Interview by Timothy Ryan White, November 2020

SOUNDTRACK -
A TALE OF TWO CITIES

playlist by Rocko Walker

playlist by Rocko Walker

SOUNDTRACK - A TALE OF TWO CITIES

playlist by Rocko Walker

playlist by Rocko Walker

SOUNDTRACK -
A TALE OF TWO CITIES